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Leftist arguments against immigration? [message #610] Tue, 21 May 2019 15:54 Go to next message
geometer
Messages: 1
Registered: May 2019
What do you guys think of "leftist" arguments against immigration, brain-drain of home nation, lowering of wages, leads extra exploitation of the immigrants, divides the working class and gives ammo to the right, etc. I think we can all agree that open borders are not what we want at least under capitalism. But it seems kind of shitty that we in the first world get to keep our (relatively) high wages and tell people in much worse circumstances to fix their own country. Just seems to spit in the face of solidarity. What do you think? Have I been blinded by liberalism? What do you think the best leftist stance towards immigration is?
Re: Leftist arguments against immigration? [message #611 is a reply to message #610] Tue, 21 May 2019 17:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Purged
Messages: 115
Registered: January 2019
There should not be leftist arguments against immigration.
The mass waves of immigration are a consequence of alienation on late capitalism/imperialism. All those nice things you get on developed countries are made of materials from poor countries and made in other poor countries, people in poor countries is just not alienated from their labor being unable to choose what do they work in but alienated because their labor is being taken to other countries to be sold.
If you don't want coon and brownies on your neighborhood blame capitalism but as long we live in capitalism we should understand this tragedy that forces people to immigrate.
Still OP is probably some crouching liberal/hidden nazi who will argue against immigration but I insist this has no solution until capitalism has completely ended.
Re: Leftist arguments against immigration? [message #612 is a reply to message #610] Wed, 22 May 2019 05:08 Go to previous message
Karl
Messages: 87
Registered: January 2019
geometer wrote on Tue, 21 May 2019 15:54
But it seems kind of shitty that we in the first world get to keep our (relatively) high wages and tell people in much worse circumstances to fix their own country. Just seems to spit in the face of solidarity. What do you think? Have I been blinded by liberalism? What do you think the best leftist stance towards immigration is?
Most people in the U.S. actually have very low wages when compared with the cost of living. Real wages in the U.S. have not risen in decades. Many jobs in the U.S. pay so little that saving money is nearly impossible. Debt burdens have increased since people are increasingly forced to pay for emergencies using credit cards. I remember when I had one job my total savings every month was $100. If my car battery died and I had to buy a replacement - my savings disappeared. So I got a second job and worked 16 hours a day to save money.

The fact is that mass immigration is entirely a capitalist policy. They gain many, many benefits from importing cheap foreign labor. First, by increasing the labor pool they decrease the ability of individual workers to bargain for better wages. In addition, because this increase in the labor supply comes from foreign labor, the linguistic and cultural divisions between native and foreign-born laborers create difficulties in worker organization. Second, many foreign-born workers have a very limited idea of the rights and benefits they are entitled to in their country of residence. This makes it easier for employers to engage in wage-theft and denial of benefits. Clearly, you can say that illegal immigrants don't deserve blame for wanting a better life. But capitalists make the same argument by saying that they're only hiring people who came illegally of their own volition, and therefore it would be immoral to NOT give them a job - even if it's a low-wage job without legal rights or benefits.

What is the solution? I think that, in a country with a large immigrant presence, leftist organizations should push for for full legalization and amnesty for existing immigrants but also an end to mass immigration both legal and illegal. In reality it makes little difference. The ruling class is going to choose whatever policies they want until workers actually gain enough muscle to stop them, and in that case the problems would be solved fairly rapidly...

Fun fact: one of the original goals of the International Workingmen's Association was to stop the use of foreign labor to break strikes.
Quote:
Formerly, when a strike took place in one country, it was defeated by the importation of workmen from another. The International has nearly stopped all that. It receives information of the intended strike, it spreads that information among its members, who at once see that for them the seat of the struggle must be forbidden ground. The masters are thus left alone to reckon with their men. In most cases, the men require no other aid than that.

[Updated on: Wed, 22 May 2019 05:11]

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