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icon5.gif  spreading class consciousness [message #10] Thu, 17 January 2019 19:14 Go to next message
anarchocyber
Messages: 33
Registered: January 2019
How do we spread class consciousness to the masses to the internet and get people to organize?
Re: spreading class consciousness [message #11 is a reply to message #10] Thu, 17 January 2019 19:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Karl
Messages: 87
Registered: January 2019
That's a good question.

First we need to organize ourselves, then we can focus on the masses.
Re: spreading class consciousness [message #12 is a reply to message #11] Fri, 18 January 2019 06:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lenin's hat
Messages: 2
Registered: January 2019
Location: Lenin's head

Lately I have been pondering the thought of first re-writing the Communist Manifesto and other Socialist literature to make it simpler, I wouldn't change anything other than some the words and use more recent and relatable events,but I would try my best to keep the core message. Then I would just go to low-income areas (Walmart, malls, etc.Wink or just local places and read it out loud. Similar to the Black Hebrew Israelites.
Re: spreading class consciousness [message #14 is a reply to message #12] Fri, 18 January 2019 09:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dalma
Messages: 30
Registered: January 2019
Lenin's hat wrote on Fri, 18 January 2019 06:47
Lately I have been pondering the thought of first re-writing the Communist Manifesto and other Socialist literature to make it simpler, I wouldn't change anything other than some the words and use more recent and relatable events,but I would try my best to keep the core message. Then I would just go to low-income areas (Walmart, malls, etc.Wink or just local places and read it out loud. Similar to the Black Hebrew Israelites.
You don't even have to read it out loud, you can print out pamphlets and leave them out for people to find. I would like us to create a collection of good pamphlets that people can just print out. While every country/area will have their own unique characteristics, there are problems shared by all workers (work hours not decreasing, while productivity is going up, for example).

What are your opinions on giving people leftist propaganda while providing a service? Let's say I run a food drive and then while distributing the collected food I include some leftist pamphlets with the aid. Or even cooking food at some outdoor event, giving it to people for free, along with some propaganda.

A part of me feels that it is OK, because you're using your own unpaid time/labour to provide people with free services or goods, and it's not like taking the literature is mandatory or a condition, it's just there. But then another part of me is hesitant to do that because no one likes to be proselytised to, even if they are getting free food. Isn't that what some cults do?
Re: spreading class consciousness [message #15 is a reply to message #14] Fri, 18 January 2019 10:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lenin's hat
Messages: 2
Registered: January 2019
Location: Lenin's head

I don't know where you live anon but I am speaking from an American perspective, the land where people don't read and have a deep almost unconscious hate for anything Communist, so I doubt anyone would read it and most people who would accept free services like food and what not have too many problems to sit down and read anything. But if you do give these pamphlets to college age and middle class people may read it.

You also mention when in food drives. which I doubt any food drives will allow you to pass out propaganda unless you are thinking of having us, the left, host the event, but don't try crashing a pre-established food drive my friend it will end in flames.

But pamphlets in general are good idea, but I feel like the ones who will quickly want, benefit, and be more open minded to left policies the most are the lowest class who have sadly been gated out of these ideas because of there limited resources when it comes to knowledge and I really think there the ones who will become the most passionate because if anyone is getting hurt by Capitalism here in the developed nation it is them. I just feel like middle class and college age will just go full identity politics or just become an armchair socialist. I just think if we are going to impact anything we have to rise up the lower class and focus on them.

btw don't be afraid to criticize my idea because I am most likely going to start and want to know if it is a bad idea before I end up fucking something up.

[Updated on: Fri, 18 January 2019 10:39]

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Re: spreading class consciousness [message #16 is a reply to message #15] Fri, 18 January 2019 10:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dalma
Messages: 30
Registered: January 2019
Lenin's hat
I don't know where you live anon but I am speaking from an American perspective, the land where people don't read and have a deep almost unconscious hate for anything Communist, so I doubt anyone would read it and most people who would accept free services like food and what not have too many problems to sit down and read anything. But if you do give these pamphlets to college age and middle class people may read it.
I always hesitate to share this pessimistic view. Maybe people don't read lengthy theory books any more, but people do read and take in information, be it through flashy magazines, short youtube videos, TV commercials, etc. The 'left' has a PR problem and seems unable to reach people. Probably because of two reasons: 1) left is fragmented and there isn't a single loud message, but many quiet messages; 2) lack of money, creating and distributing media costs money. The mainstream media will never give an honest expose on leftist ideas because they have an interest in keeping things the way they are. CrimethInc. has the right idea, their pamphlets and books are eye-catching, and you can see them having popular appeal. They shoot themselves in the foot by selling most of their books (some are free) and then the books end up as coffee-book tables, rather than the catalyst to some sort of collective awakening.

Lenin's hat
unless you are thinking of having us, the left, host the event, but don't try crashing a pre-established food drive my friend it will end in flames.
Of course I mean if leftists host it, and not crashing anyone else's.

Lenin's hat
But pamphlets in general are good idea, but I feel like the ones who will quickly want, benefit, and be more open minded to left policies the most are the lowest class who have sadly been gated out of these ideas because of there limited resources when it comes to knowledge and I really think there the ones who will become the most passionate because if anyone is getting hurt by Capitalism here in the developed nation it is them.
It seems like people just have to get back to good ol' face-to-face educating and organising. It doesn't have to be "full conversion", you don't have to find a worker and in a day have him be ready to die in the revolution. The idea is to make leftist ideas more palatable by dispelling all the lies and encouraging critical thinking. People have to ask themselves "why am I being told all my life communists are literally Satan when there are barely any socialist/communist countries in the world left?" among other things. Ultimately you cannot make any conclusions for people, they have to reach them themselves.

Lenin's hat
I just feel like middle class and college age will just go full identity politics or just become an armchair socialist. I just think if we are going to impact anything we have to rise up the lower class and focus on them.
Leftists range from kids to geriatrics. We all must organise on our level and in our community/environment. High schoolers should try to raise class consciousness of classmates, college students in colleges, workers in work places. Remember, there is no such thing as a "middle class", just workers who are making more than the minimum to survive. Middle class people have to be made aware how precarious their own position is. When companies go under even management gets the boot and those who were "middle class" quickly find themselves in poverty.
Re: spreading class consciousness [message #18 is a reply to message #15] Fri, 18 January 2019 13:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Durruti
Messages: 21
Registered: January 2019
Lenin's hat wrote on Fri, 18 January 2019 10:35
I don't know where you live anon but I am speaking from an American perspective, the land where people don't read and have a deep almost unconscious hate for anything Communist, so I doubt anyone would read it and most people who would accept free services like food and what not have too many problems to sit down and read anything. But if you do give these pamphlets to college age and middle class people may read it.
I'm not from the USA, but I suspect people will be more open to your ideas than you might expect. The US working class are hugely insecure, generally one missed paycheck from homelessness. The people who accept free food are likely already there. Giving these people the message that there's an institutional reason for their problems will likely sit well with them and inspire some critical thinking, if not create some new comrades immediately. The most vulnerable and most desperate are often the most passionate converts to the cause.

For the majority of people who just walk on by, you might plant a socialist seed in their heads. Maybe it'll soften their anti-commie views, more likely they've just neer thought about it before. Maybe the next time their rent is due and they're stressing over which credit card will work at the checkout, they'll think back to you and one fo your slogans that spoke directly to their situation.

There'll probably be some assholes too, but theey're unavoidable whatever you're doing. Just ignore them, don't let them get you down and focus on the interactions which went well.
Re: spreading class consciousness [message #25 is a reply to message #18] Fri, 18 January 2019 17:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anarchocyber
Messages: 33
Registered: January 2019
I do like the pamphlet idea, I was wondering about piggybacking on DSA as it's numbers have grown astronomically with trump becoming president. Trying to pull the DSA more toward the left and getting them to actively fight for coops, organizing labor unions, etc. Making a zine similar to jacobin and distributing it. I'll see if I can get a rough draft going.
Re: spreading class consciousness [message #36 is a reply to message #12] Fri, 18 January 2019 18:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
MyGod...PureIdeology
Messages: 3
Registered: January 2019
A better use of your time would be to turn the manifesto into a (series of) YouTube video(s). Download some video editing software and edit some visuals for it. Make it interesting to watch. Use images to make the contemporary relevance clear to people. Add some dramatic music (don't overdo it though) and you've got a great piece of propaganda.

I've been thinking about starting a propaganda channel myself, but I first have to get my personal life figured out.
Re: spreading class consciousness [message #38 is a reply to message #36] Fri, 18 January 2019 19:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bptech
Messages: 10
Registered: January 2019
MyGod...PureIdeology wrote on Fri, 18 January 2019 13:55
A better use of your time would be to turn the manifesto into a (series of) YouTube video(s). Download some video editing software and edit some visuals for it. Make it interesting to watch. Use images to make the contemporary relevance clear to people. Add some dramatic music (don't overdo it though) and you've got a great piece of propaganda.

I've been thinking about starting a propaganda channel myself, but I first have to get my personal life figured out.
this would be a good start. someone in /leftypol/ mentioned starting a PragerU knock-off channel with a communist leaning. idk if they ever got around to it.
I'm pretty experienced with using Blender to create animations, so I'm willing to offer my support if there are other people willing to do the research, writing and voice-over.
Re: spreading class consciousness [message #39 is a reply to message #38] Fri, 18 January 2019 19:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anarchocyber
Messages: 33
Registered: January 2019
While I think that it's a good idea, the reason that pragerU is so popular is because koch funding.

There was a channel [https]://www[dot]youtube.com/channel/UCCe_fTqstaz8axIBScs8_ Hg I don't know if it's dead though...
Re: spreading class consciousness [message #40 is a reply to message #38] Fri, 18 January 2019 19:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Karl
Messages: 87
Registered: January 2019
bptech wrote on Fri, 18 January 2019 19:07

I'm pretty experienced with using Blender to create animations, so I'm willing to offer my support if there are other people willing to do the research, writing and voice-over.
Been thinking about starting a channel. I have the software and equipment to do it. Having someone to create short animations would be very useful. Even just having an animated bumper would be great.
Re: spreading class consciousness [message #41 is a reply to message #40] Fri, 18 January 2019 19:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bptech
Messages: 10
Registered: January 2019
Karl wrote on Fri, 18 January 2019 14:30
bptech wrote on Fri, 18 January 2019 19:07

I'm pretty experienced with using Blender to create animations, so I'm willing to offer my support if there are other people willing to do the research, writing and voice-over.
Been thinking about starting a channel. I have the software and equipment to do it. Having someone to create short animations would be very useful. Even just having an animated bumper would be great.
it's not enough to just have a channel, we need to be introducing people to advanced topics in a simplistic, attractive manner. that means having good writing that hooks, someone who can voice with the right intonation, and someone who has an advanced, academic-level understanding of topics in leftist economics and philosophy (EDIT: and history).
sorry if you don't meet these criteria, but I can't animate for just anyone, I don't have that kind of time to sink. if you do, PM me.

[Updated on: Fri, 18 January 2019 19:47]

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Re: spreading class consciousness [message #64 is a reply to message #41] Sat, 19 January 2019 10:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dalma
Messages: 30
Registered: January 2019
I think youtube is a poor platform for mass exposure and what we aim to do, because while you can search for anything, youtube decides what gets seen based on how much advertising/marketing companies pay them. It is unlikely that "Let's Try Communism!" videos would appear on many front pages or in suggestions (unless the person has a history of watching leftist videos).

Case in point: I typed communism into the youtube search bar and this was the first result, with 2 million views: youtube.com/watch?v=qElx_EyTTKA and that's with a history of watching leftist videos. The second result is another NowThisWorld video: youtube.com/watch?v=FrtDZ-LOXFw (this video makes the claim tax-funded school buses = socialism).

These NowThisWorld videos try to make it seem like they're being fair, but they aren't really. In the first video he says that all attempts at socialism/communism resulted in drop in living conditions.
Re: spreading class consciousness [message #67 is a reply to message #64] Sat, 19 January 2019 14:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
MyGod...PureIdeology
Messages: 3
Registered: January 2019
> I think youtube is a poor platform for mass exposure and what we aim to do, because while you can search for anything, youtube decides what gets seen based on how much advertising/marketing companies pay them. It is unlikely that "Let's Try Communism!" videos would appear on many front pages or in suggestions (unless the person has a history of watching leftist videos).

While this is obviously true, YouTube is still a great place to host the material we produce. Videos are good propaganda and YouTube is a good place to host them, even if it isn't going to be of much help in popularizing them.

We need to produce leftist (white) propaganda videos on YouTube and spread the links to them ourselves. Next to that we try to get the algorithm to work in our favor as much as possible, while recognizing that we're not in a good position for this.
Re: spreading class consciousness [message #68 is a reply to message #25] Sat, 19 January 2019 14:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Durruti
Messages: 21
Registered: January 2019
Quote:
I was wondering about piggybacking on DSA... Trying to pull the DSA more toward the left and getting them to actively fight for coops, organizing labor unions, etc.
The example of the UK Labour party shows this can be a good way to go. Obviously 'just voting' isn't going to change much (Although slightly more than not voting), but with a concerted effort to infiltrate organisations and drag them to the left we have a chance at real change.

We shouldn't stop doing other things too, but fight on every front simultaneously.

Quote:
I think youtube is a poor platform for mass exposure and what we aim to do, because while you can search for anything, youtube decides what gets seen based on how much advertising/marketing companies pay them.
My job involves analysing YouTube's recommendation algorithm, can confirm this is absolutely true. Whenever you watch anything political, the suggestions are always slightly to the right of whatever you watched, meaning that eventually you'll end up with ultraright propaganda. All roads lead to Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro, then beyond to obscure fash.

I don't think this means we shouldn't use YouTube though. We're fighting an uphill battle whichever way we turn; as I said we should fight on every front simultaneously.
Re: spreading class consciousness [message #83 is a reply to message #68] Sat, 19 January 2019 21:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Camarade René
Messages: 14
Registered: January 2019

Quote:
I think youtube is a poor platform for mass exposure and what we aim to do, because while you can search for anything, youtube decides what gets seen based on how much advertising/marketing companies pay them.
My job involves analysing YouTube's recommendation algorithm, can confirm this is absolutely true. Whenever you watch anything political, the suggestions are always slightly to the right of whatever you watched, meaning that eventually you'll end up with ultraright propaganda. All roads lead to Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro, then beyond to obscure fash. [/quote]

Wait what? what the hell is your job?
Re: spreading class consciousness [message #86 is a reply to message #68] Sun, 20 January 2019 00:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anarchocyber
Messages: 33
Registered: January 2019
Durruti wrote on Sat, 19 January 2019 14:35
Quote:
I was wondering about piggybacking on DSA... Trying to pull the DSA more toward the left and getting them to actively fight for coops, organizing labor unions, etc.
The example of the UK Labour party shows this can be a good way to go. Obviously 'just voting' isn't going to change much (Although slightly more than not voting), but with a concerted effort to infiltrate organisations and drag them to the left we have a chance at real change.

We shouldn't stop doing other things too, but fight on every front simultaneously.

Quote:
I think youtube is a poor platform for mass exposure and what we aim to do, because while you can search for anything, youtube decides what gets seen based on how much advertising/marketing companies pay them.
My job involves analysing YouTube's recommendation algorithm, can confirm this is absolutely true. Whenever you watch anything political, the suggestions are always slightly to the right of whatever you watched, meaning that eventually you'll end up with ultraright propaganda. All roads lead to Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro, then beyond to obscure fash.

I don't think this means we shouldn't use YouTube though. We're fighting an uphill battle whichever way we turn; as I said we should fight on every front simultaneously.

Looks like we got a man on the inside
Re: spreading class consciousness [message #103 is a reply to message #83] Mon, 21 January 2019 16:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Durruti
Messages: 21
Registered: January 2019
Camarade René wrote on Sat, 19 January 2019 21:40
Wait what? what the hell is your job?
Freelance software, got paid by some Liberal think tank in the US to "prove" RUSSIA TRUMP ALGORITHMS FAKE NEWS MISINFORMATION.
It was pretty simple; just visit a random video, write down the suggestions, visit those, write down the suggestions, see where you end up. Automate & repeat thousands of times, generate pretty graphs of what you end up watching.

Pretty sure the money ultimately came from the Clinton Foundation, but mans got rent to pay yo.
Re: spreading class consciousness [message #115 is a reply to message #103] Mon, 21 January 2019 20:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bptech
Messages: 10
Registered: January 2019
Durruti wrote on Mon, 21 January 2019 11:53
Camarade René wrote on Sat, 19 January 2019 21:40
Wait what? what the hell is your job?
Freelance software, got paid by some Liberal think tank in the US to "prove" RUSSIA TRUMP ALGORITHMS FAKE NEWS MISINFORMATION.
It was pretty simple; just visit a random video, write down the suggestions, visit those, write down the suggestions, see where you end up. Automate & repeat thousands of times, generate pretty graphs of what you end up watching.

Pretty sure the money ultimately came from the Clinton Foundation, but mans got rent to pay yo.
are there any publications on this?
Re: spreading class consciousness [message #167 is a reply to message #115] Sun, 27 January 2019 21:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Camarade René
Messages: 14
Registered: January 2019
bptech wrote on Mon, 21 January 2019 20:45
Durruti wrote on Mon, 21 January 2019 11:53
Camarade René wrote on Sat, 19 January 2019 21:40
Wait what? what the hell is your job?
Freelance software, got paid by some Liberal think tank in the US to "prove" RUSSIA TRUMP ALGORITHMS FAKE NEWS MISINFORMATION.
It was pretty simple; just visit a random video, write down the suggestions, visit those, write down the suggestions, see where you end up. Automate & repeat thousands of times, generate pretty graphs of what you end up watching.

Pretty sure the money ultimately came from the Clinton Foundation, but mans got rent to pay yo.
are there any publications on this?
Bump because I'm very interested in this. A little Googling and I found this organization:
Which was referenced in this article:

Wtf I can't post the links because I haven't posted more than 5 messages. This might be my 5th so hang on I'll put the links next post
Re: spreading class consciousness [message #168 is a reply to message #167] Sun, 27 January 2019 21:39 Go to previous message
Camarade René
Messages: 14
Registered: January 2019
https://datasociety.net/research/media-manipulation/

https://medium.com/@MediaManipulation/unite-the-right-how-yo utubes-recommendation-algorithm-connects-the-u-s-far-right-9 f1387ccfabd

"We followed YouTube's recommendation algorithm wherever it took us. We started off with 329 channels from the right, 543 from political parties and politicians, the top 250 US mainstream channels (from Socialblade.com), and 234 channels from the left. This initial list was based on what scholars, the Southern Poverty Law Center, journalists, as well as users on Reddit threads and Quora labelled as right or left. In our next step, we then collected all channels that these 1,356 channels recommended themselves on their channel page, an addition of 2,977 channels. Next, we conducted a snowball method: we followed YouTube's channel recommendations for our starting set in three steps. With each step the amount of channels got bigger. This way, we ended up with 13,529 channels. We then visualized these results to create a map of YouTube's universe. Every channel is a node, every recommendation from one channel to another is an edge.

There are some general observations: we can see the mainstream island in the middle of the map; it consists of Let's Players (i.e. people that play video games on YouTube), pranksters, YouTube personalities, cat videos, or late night shows. South from that, is the music ecosystem with Justin Bieber, Katy Perry, and Rihanna. To the north-east from the mainstream is the kid's entertainment section. West from the mainstream are the political communities. Here, the liberal and progressive community (purple) is clustered around The Young Turks. In these communities are media outlets like CNN but also the channels from Barack Obama, Elizabeth Warren, and Bernie Sanders. This community is closely connected to two other political ones that we labelled the "far-left" and the "far-right." While the far-left consists of communist, socialist or anarchist channels, the far-right includes the so-called "alt-right" as well as white supremacists. But we can also see that the far-left is not particularly big and while they connect to the liberal and progressive community, the connection is not mutual: the far-left on YouTube is not very visible when you follow the platform's recommendation algorithms"
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