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Capitalist problems [message #360] Tue, 19 March 2019 08:50 Go to next message
dalma
Messages: 30
Registered: January 2019
To make our message more clear I think we have to separate the problem/critique part and the prescribed solution part. Often when leftist groups point to problems in capitalism, they're often packed with a solution that some may find unpalatable. Sometimes it will be total central planning and full cybernetic communism, sometimes it will be a free love commune where we all just really really care about one another. In my view, we're not there yet. We still have to break the illusions that people harbour, illusions like: capitalism is eternal, capitalism is natural, there can be nothing after capitalism, when capitalism ends the world ends, capitalism improves everyone's lives, etc. etc. If anything, it will be useful to have a list of materials and links to support the claims. I'll begin and then hopefully others can add.

Efficiency/waste

Capitalism wastes a lot, showing it to be terrible at management of resources and distribution.

https://www.worldvision.org/hunger-news-stories/food-waste

https://www.mintpressnews.com/empty-homes-outnumber-the-home less-6-to-1-so-why-not-give-them-homes/207194/

You work harder/more in capitalism

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2013/08/29/why-a-medie val-peasant-got-more-vacation-time-than-you/

http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/rauch/worktime/hours_w orkweek.html

In pursuit of profit, everything is built worse

Quote:
So is this conspiracy theory true? Does planned obsolescence really exist?

The answer: yes, but with caveats. Beyond the crude caricature of greedy companies wantonly fleecing their customers, the practice does have silver linings. To an extent, planned obsolescence is an inevitable consequence of sustainable businesses giving people goods they desire. In this way, planned obsolescence serves as a reflection of a ravenous, consumer culture which industries did create for their benefit, yet were hardly alone in doing so.
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20160612-heres-the-truth-abo ut-the-planned-obsolescence-of-tech
Re: Capitalist problems [message #364 is a reply to message #360] Tue, 19 March 2019 15:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Purged
Messages: 115
Registered: January 2019
"That's all truth but there is nothing we can do about it"
People knows that capitalism sucks they just can conceive anything else.
Re: Capitalist problems [message #366 is a reply to message #364] Tue, 19 March 2019 23:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anarchocyber
Messages: 33
Registered: January 2019
Another thing we can do is point out co-ops are more productive, better wages, and workers have more say
https://www.thenation.com/article/worker-cooperatives-are-mo re-productive-than-normal-companies/
Re: Capitalist problems [message #374 is a reply to message #364] Wed, 20 March 2019 07:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dalma
Messages: 30
Registered: January 2019
Purged
"That's all truth but there is nothing we can do about it"
People knows that capitalism sucks they just can conceive anything else.
I don't think people do. People see problems in capitalism not as crises that endanger the system, but as flaws that can be corrected via more regulation, electing the right people in office, etc. It has to be shown that these problems are inherent to capitalism and cannot be voted or regulated away. A historic analysis of post-1950s capitalism would be useful, to show that there has always been a huge gap in equality, that it has always been wasteful, etc. For example, people see the abundance of stuff as a good thing. Is it reasonable for there to be hundreds of cars in car dealership lots, waiting for someone to buy them. And then when no one does the cars are just crushed and recycled. It's literally a waste of labour power.

anarchocyber
Another thing we can do is point out co-ops are more productive, better wages, and workers have more say
https://www.thenation.com/article/worker-cooperatives-are-mo re-productive-than-normal-companies/
A lot of people on the left seem to be against co-ops, or maybe see it as a mark of market socialism. Personally, I think co-ops are a good idea and I'd rather work in a co-op than a 'regular' company. Sadly, workers in manufacturing don't have the capital to buy the company or start one, so from what I've seen co-ops are usually cafes and restaurants, which shouldn't exist in the first place. I think it was the Danish and/or Swedish governments who tried to pass a law in the 60s/70s about the government lending money and helping workers to buy the companies in which they worked. The laws didn't pass, of course.
Re: Capitalist problems [message #404 is a reply to message #374] Sun, 24 March 2019 18:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Karl
Messages: 87
Registered: January 2019
Exploitation is really one of the best points you can make against capitalism to ordinary working people. All you need to do is point out that no matter how much value a worker produces they will ALWAYS be paid less than that - otherwise their employer wouldn't make a profit. The system of capitalism itself requires that workers be exploited for profits to exist and for the economy to function. It's Marxist theory 101.

Richard Wolff explains it here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFEzJovH2yo
Re: Capitalist problems [message #448 is a reply to message #374] Wed, 27 March 2019 05:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Purged
Messages: 115
Registered: January 2019
dalma wrote on Wed, 20 March 2019 07:34
I don't think people do. People see problems in capitalism not as crises that endanger the system, but as flaws that can be corrected via more regulation, electing the right people in office, etc. It has to be shown that these problems are inherent to capitalism and cannot be voted or regulated away. A historic analysis of post-1950s capitalism would be useful, to show that there has always been a huge gap in equality, that it has always been wasteful, etc. For example, people see the abundance of stuff as a good thing. Is it reasonable for there to be hundreds of cars in car dealership lots, waiting for someone to buy them. And then when no one does the cars are just crushed and recycled. It's literally a waste of labour power.
I know that and people know that, the thing is that people is too tangled in capitalism to see something different to it.
Re: Capitalist problems [message #456 is a reply to message #374] Wed, 27 March 2019 09:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iskra
Messages: 1
Registered: March 2019
dalma wrote on Wed, 20 March 2019 08:34
from what I've seen co-ops are usually cafes and restaurants, which shouldn't exist in the first place.
Why shouldn't they exist ?
Re: Capitalist problems [message #457 is a reply to message #456] Wed, 27 March 2019 09:57 Go to previous message
dalma
Messages: 30
Registered: January 2019
iskra
Why shouldn't they exist ?
Short answer: because they're shit to work in. No one wants to slave over a hot stove for 10-12 hours just so some people could have a meal.

Long answer: http://prole.info/ar.html

In a post-capitalist society you could still have people making food for others, but it wouldn't be 'restaurant-style', you wouldn't have a menu with a dozen elaborate dishes, you wouldn't get your meal in less than 30 minutes. It would be a cantine-style experience, with people eating whatever the workers made that day. There wouldn't be dozens of meals to choose from, but probably two to three meals that could be made in bulk and then served to people from the kitchen.
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