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question: how will moderation work? [message #23] Fri, 18 January 2019 17:25 Go to next message
bptech
Messages: 10
Registered: January 2019
so how are going to actually make sure this place doesn't get flooded and spammed? how is the moderation team being hired?
if this place grows in popularity the moderation structure and their general attentiveness will have to do likewise.
to kapo: if you don't have any plan or hiring rules in place yet, maybe let us know so we can formulate one ITT.
Re: question: how will moderation work? [message #24 is a reply to message #23] Fri, 18 January 2019 17:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kapo
Messages: 65
Registered: January 2019

Administrator
Moderators cannot delete posts. They can only move them to the Trash forum, that is visible by everyone but not listed on the front page.

I'm hoping that this cuts down on people feeling like they are being snubbed. Any post that is sent to the Trash can be brought back, things can be "un-deleted". Also, moderators can merge and move topics/posts.

This means that I am happy to make anyone a moderator. There is a log of all the actions moderators/admins take that cannot be edited (only completely deleted), I am trying to find a way to automatically publish on a separate webpage. I'm happy to post it manually while I find a solution. This is so that the community can see exactly what is going on. This is the most transparency I can achieve with the tools available. If there is a better way I am all ears.

bptech
to kapo: if you don't have any plan or hiring rules in place yet, maybe let us know so we can formulate one ITT.
I don't have any hiring rules, feel free to formulate some. My thinking is, give the people who want to do it a chance, the community can review their actions and decide to keep them there.
Re: question: how will moderation work? [message #31 is a reply to message #24] Fri, 18 January 2019 17:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bptech
Messages: 10
Registered: January 2019
kapo wrote on Fri, 18 January 2019 12:35
I don't have any hiring rules, feel free to formulate some. My thinking is, give the people who want to do it a chance, the community can review their actions and decide to keep them there.
the problem I see with trusting "the community" is that it could be easily subverted by gaslighters and flooders. if we rely on the community's reactions as a metric we run the risk of listening to the majority of the people if they're wrong. applying democracy doesn't tend to work when you're dealing with something as anonymous as the internet.

here's what I was thinking: we have all those who want register as moderators read and accept some sort of agreement eg
1. I will not target any anti-capitalist ideologue in the name of a minor practical/theoretical disagreement etc (obviously there should be some more linguistic detail on what classifies as "minor" and "target")
2. I agree to punish those who violate the forum rules as stated in the given sticky etc (the sticky can be modified and the means of punishment might entail different things for different rules)

it should be up to the moderator class to decide and debate whether this agreement has been violated concerning one specific moderator, in any amount of time they like. (maybe create a private subforum or channel for this).
I do like the idea of allowing the community to view moderator logs however, but I think rather than letting them decide they should go through a report (and appeal) system which will flag a specific mod for further discussion in a private mod forum or chat.

also the problem with moderators only being able to move items into the trash is that it doesn't give them any power to get rid of illegal content (which they obviously need), which threatens the integrity of the site towards DNS administrators. also let's be honest here, we're going to need a banning system too in the instance of flood and spam raids, especially if it includes malicious content. I'm also not sure whether I like the idea of allowing anonymous posting just any where, I'm thinking there should be some kind of wall separating those who are registered and those who aren't, but I'm not too confident about that since I don't have any experience successfully dealing with raids.

[Updated on: Fri, 18 January 2019 17:59]

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Re: question: how will moderation work? [message #58 is a reply to message #31] Sat, 19 January 2019 05:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Purged
Messages: 115
Registered: January 2019
My concern is how do we now the admins are not COINTELPRO, moralfags like Che or powergrabbing nuts like Space_?
Re: question: how will moderation work? [message #61 is a reply to message #31] Sat, 19 January 2019 09:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kapo
Messages: 65
Registered: January 2019

Administrator
bptech
the problem I see with trusting "the community" is that it could be easily subverted by gaslighters and flooders. if we rely on the community's reactions as a metric we run the risk of listening to the majority of the people if they're wrong. applying democracy doesn't tend to work when you're dealing with something as anonymous as the internet.
I want a bit more relaxed moderation and I hope that registering on the site will make people approach it with the attitude of "I don't want to shit where I eat". And I'd like to give people who 'transgress' the benefit of a doubt first, before declaring them an enemy of socialism.

bptech
here's what I was thinking: we have all those who want register as moderators read and accept some sort of agreement eg
1. I will not target any anti-capitalist ideologue in the name of a minor practical/theoretical disagreement etc (obviously there should be some more linguistic detail on what classifies as "minor" and "target")
2. I agree to punish those who violate the forum rules as stated in the given sticky etc (the sticky can be modified and the means of punishment might entail different things for different rules)
That seems alright. Basically, ideological disagreements shouldn't be moderated. The stuff that needs to be removed is fascist and capitalist propaganda, but also posts calling for acts of violence or anything else that might draw unwanted attention.

bptech
it should be up to the moderator class to decide and debate whether this agreement has been violated concerning one specific moderator, in any amount of time they like. (maybe create a private subforum or channel for this).
I want to avoid the creation of "secret" forums. If moderators want to discuss something I think they should do it openly on the forum, barring that, there's always IRC and private messages. But I would like to keep the forum open.

bptech
I do like the idea of allowing the community to view moderator logs however, but I think rather than letting them decide they should go through a report (and appeal) system which will flag a specific mod for further discussion in a private mod forum or chat.
I'm afraid that self-policing rarely works, and I'm trying to avoid creating a mods vs. users situation.

bptech
also the problem with moderators only being able to move items into the trash is that it doesn't give them any power to get rid of illegal content (which they obviously need), which threatens the integrity of the site towards DNS administrators.
Yeah, I have been thinking about that. Maybe not having global moderators would be a good idea, but have moderators for forums, so if one does decide to "go rogue" they're limited in the amount of damage they can do. I think a daily backup might mitigate this danger as well.

bptech
also let's be honest here, we're going to need a banning system too in the instance of flood and spam raids, especially if it includes malicious content.
I'm hoping that the registration is a deterrent to that and that those who'd 'raid' choose a more convenient target.

bptech
I'm also not sure whether I like the idea of allowing anonymous posting just any where, I'm thinking there should be some kind of wall separating those who are registered and those who aren't, but I'm not too confident about that since I don't have any experience successfully dealing with raids.
Anonymous posting is only allowed in the Miscellaneous subforum, to post in Main you have to be registered. Everyone can view posts without logging in, though.

Purged
My concern is how do we now the admins are not COINTELPRO, moralfags like Che or powergrabbing nuts like Space_?
You don't. But I hope I can earn your trust.
Re: question: how will moderation work? [message #124 is a reply to message #61] Tue, 22 January 2019 00:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
canned pizza
Messages: 2
Registered: January 2019
> I'm hoping that the registration is a deterrent to that and that those who'd 'raid' choose a more convenient target.

Is it possible to add captcha or any kind of challenge under registration page? I am not sure what prevents adversary from writing simple python script to flood database. Did you set up defence like limiting number of accounts that can be made per ip address? Quick search revealed lots of plugins that allow to import 3rd party captcha challenge or locally generate questions.
Re: question: how will moderation work? [message #147 is a reply to message #124] Fri, 25 January 2019 11:16 Go to previous message
kapo
Messages: 65
Registered: January 2019

Administrator
canned pizza
Is it possible to add captcha or any kind of challenge under registration page?
I've enabled captcha for registrations.
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